The role of mass media in shaping identity construction 7

Appendix III
Interview sample

This interview was conducted in Arabic, with Anas on May 23, 2004 in Leeds, UK. The following transcript is my translation:

Q- How long you have been living in Britain and how did you settle down?

A- I came to Britain 12 years ago to do graduate studies at a University in London. Unfortunately I encountered some problems at home and I could not finish my studies. I decided to stay here for a while, but I did not have the intention to stay for a long time.

Q- So how do you qualify in general your experience here, was it hard, easy to live here?

A- It was a rich experience. You live in a repeated pattern at home, but when you immigrate you live new things everyday. But it was very hard for me during the first years. I had nightmares, sometimes I cried. Everybody go through these experiences. But afterwards things go more smoothly and quickly.

Q- What type of difficulties did you encounter before you got used to life here?

A- The most difficult thing is to get used to the culture and system here. In many other European countries they have a more flexible system, but her things are different, and the law is rigid. Moreover, it was difficult to understand people when you don’t know well the language and the culture. For us, there is no problem in living in France as we have a background about the Francophone culture. But the British culture is different.

Q- Is the fact that you are a Muslim Arab had made it more difficult for you to get to know the local culture and people? For example, if a Muslim cannot go to the pub, it will be difficult for him to socialize with the local people, isn’t it?

A- As a Muslim just a little. As a Moroccan, I don’t think so. When I came in 92, few people knew something about Morocco. You know though I come from a traditional family in Morocco, going to pubs and drinking alcohols was not unfamiliar to me at home. You know these things are normal in Morocco. Moreover, it is not a condition that you should go to a pub to get familiar with local people. If you are educated, you speak good English you can discuss with them. If you know how to communicate your point of view they will understand you. It’s not those things that will affect your integration at all.

Q- So, you had no experience of discrimination against you as a Muslim?

A- There are some people whose behavior towards you changes when they know you are a Muslim. But I try not to show that I’m sensitive to it or that they talk to a recluse or a fundamentalist person. I believe in interaction and that’s why I allow people to ask me any question. After 9/11 many people came to me to ask me if those who were behind the terrorist attacks were connected to Islam. I confess I found it difficult to convince them. Although similar things were perpetrated by Christians and Jews, but we never say they are Christian terrorists for example. In any case we must understand first why they did those things.

Q- Was your life affected after 9/11? Did you feel any difference before and after that date?

A- Personally no, not very much. I have had personally no experience of racism against me after that date. I heard of certain things of this sort but they were not that serious, despite the fact that perception towards Muslims became more suspicious. Before you could wear the Palestinian scarf, for example, without being noticed. Now you are spotted out, but it all depends on where you are. I saw recently a policewoman wearing a scarf in London. You can see there are more tolerance here than at home. Maybe the perception of Muslims was largely negative even before 9/11. Those events only put Muslims at the center of media attention, and the media were waiting for such an opportunity. I tried to participate in many associations to try to make people more aware of what’s going on, but [Muslims] lack the will and sometimes sincerity to do it. We should try to be ambassadors to maintain our own reputation.

Q- Don’t you think that by covering constantly figures like Abu Hamza Al Masri the mass media do more harm than good to British Muslims?

A- But the problem is that fundamentalist people like Abu Hamza Al Masri take money from English taxpayers and take social money over their children and after that they say they don’t accept the laws of this country. I participated in a number of manifestations in London and in one of them, which was against the war in Iraq, I was so angry about the behavior of the members of the Islamic Liberation party. We were more than 500,000 people, half of them were [white] English. We were heading towards Hyde Park where speeches were going to be delivered, and there the members of that Islamic party were holding a huge placard over which was written ‘Reject Western values’. But the people who were participating with them in the demonstration were doing so out of their ‘western’ values. This type of behavior of some Muslims is doing more harm to many other Muslims. But of course there are some people who want to combat Islam. They want to banish it whenever they have an opportunity. They might be a minority but they are powerful because they have their hands everywhere.

Q- What are your main sources of news? I mean what newspapers do you read, what TV channels do you watch normally?

A- I consume a lot of TV. It might be a passive way to learn but it is very useful. I like to watch Arab channels such as Abu Dhabi and Al-Jazeera. They have very useful programs. I watch also BBC. You find in it things you cannot find in other channels or even newspapers. I read sometimes newspapers, but I have not developed the habit of reading them each morning… I read them only when I have time. I like to watch some programs such as Panorama and Ramsey’ Kitchen nightmares on channel 4. In this program this chief enter an unsuccessful restaurant and within two weeks he turns it into a new one. I also started to watch programs on the renovation of houses because I intend to invest in the real-estate business. [These programs] teach you such useful things.

Q- Do you watch these programs at home with your family?

A- Not all the time. My wife prefers some channels and I prefer others. I prefer news and documentaries while she prefers mainly fiction. But we manage to share each other programs.

Q- What about news, what channels you watch most when you want to learn about such events as the war in Iraq or Palestine?

A- There are many channels, but Al-Jazeera remains certainly for me the best one, at least in the Arab World. It has gained a wide reputation of fairness. You feel it has more independence. They have a great freedom. It has unified the Arab public opinion on many issues. Because my wife knows also English, so we don’t have a problem with watching English channels as well. We watch both and sometimes we do balance between the two. But I prefer Arab channels more.

Q- What about the local channels?

A- It’s sad to say that the BBC took side with the government in the last war against Iraq. Before, it tried to be more or less objective by giving space to other voices. During the last war it was not like the Independence or The Guardian. I like also to follow Channels 4 and 5 also because they show some programs that give a fair image on Muslims. But the English [audience] may retain one good image only to be destroyed in another program. They need to give more balanced programs.

Q- Are you satisfied then with the way the local media portray Muslims?

A- In the domain of the media good news is no news. Programs about religion and prayer are broadcast in early morning because it does not concern people. But in the case of a crime about ‘honor’ they gave it more attention. But you heard about the case of that journalist in the BBC [Robert Kilroy] who denigrated the Arabs but was sacked from his job because of it. Such people hate Arabs and Muslims. We should not lie to ourselves. But they are not the majority. They are so powerful because we are weak. Some Islamic associations try to make people here more aware about our culture but the problems are that [Muslims] themselves are not very disciplined. Sometimes the media avoid covering some sensitive issues, but when something happens such as when a girl is compelled into marriage by her family, journalists like Roy exploit it to attack Islam.

Q- Do you think that the local media have a great influence on the way people perceive Muslims?

A- [The media] are powerful. Most people here rely on such newspapers such as the Sun to know about the world. [I think] 80% of people read the Sun. [those newspapers] don’t say the truth and they know how to attract people, and people don’t bother much to learn about things. Most people I talk to say that their government sent troops to Iraq to liberate it from Saddam Hussein. When I told them it’s not true they just don’t like to listen to you or believe you. But it is the responsibility of Muslims also. For example we can win the battle of the public opinion over issues of Palestine and Iraq because they concern ending colonization of people. If there were a consistent and sincere effort from us we can influence the public opinion in Britain, but many associations that try to do that are either ineffective because of internal divisions or their members are too radical. We should try to build a consensus over laic grounds and try to build alliances with other movements such as the Left and Green movements. Here people have the predisposition to believe both parties because they are ignorant about such issues. But we should not consider them as enemies. When I explain to them about what happen in Palestine, they show they are surprised. They don’t know that all that happen there.

Q- You spoke about laicism, do you think it is easy to live as a Muslim in country such as Britain?

A- Islam is a very flexible religion. Consider prayer, you can do it even with your eyelashes if you are disabled. It allows you to do compromises when you need to. The system here also allows you to pray at work even if you are going to pray five times a day as long as you don’t take half an hour each time and you don’t abuse the system. Mosques are open here and you can stay all day there and this is not possible even in some Arab and Islamic countries. They are not totally secular here, but because of tolerance they accept others.

Q- Where are your friends from? How is your relationship with them?

A- They are from various origins but mainly Arab and Muslims. When I came to Britain, I had a different perception of Arabs from the Middle East and the Gulf and they also. For me they looked dull and I felt I had no connection with them. I didn’t even want to know them. I used to go out with the Spanish, the French and the Italians. I felt closer to them. It is only later that I started to know that I share also with [Arab from the Middle east] many things. When I got to know some Palestinians, I started to feel more at ease with them more than the Europeans. When we met, [instead of drinks], there was a lot of food which I like and there was a lot of fun. I married then a woman from the Gulf. So I discovered they are not that different from us.

Q- What about religion are you a practicing Muslim?

A- When I came here I was not. But here I started to practice. When I met those Arabs [from the Middle East], I started to attend with them some ceremonies like in Eid Al–Fet’r and Ramadan. I experienced things I never knew back at home. Here there is a religious freedom more than in our countries. In the Mosque here, you have on Monday a religious sermon by Sheikh Judea. Tuesday, you can have a lecture, the next day an exposition, every day a new activity… you see… you sit with an Imam who was sentenced to eight years of prison in his country and he allows you to ask any question in your mind and he encourages you to think and gives you freedom to think. This doesn’t exist at home. They used to teach us only ablutions and inheritance.

Q- So can we say now that you feel you are a Muslim first as you discovered that you are close to other Muslims here?

A- No, I feel more as a Moroccan. I’m first Moroccan. Moroccan culture is deeply rooted in me. The other Muslims look at me as a Moroccan too and it is in the subconscious.

Q- But you are also a British national?

A- Yes, but there is no contradiction in it. You have Jews, Sheikh and others, so why not Muslims or Moroccans. It’s not a problem. They don’t require from you anything beyond your capacity [in Britain]. So my first and most allegiance is to Morocco. But I swore that I won’t do anything that can harm Britain. I may not like the policy of the British government, but I’m a British too. I may participate in rallies, contribute money to lobby the government, but we should as Muslims respect the law of this country with whom we have a pact of allegiance and trust.